On March 9th, we interviewed Cheryl McKissack Daniel, CEO of the McKissack group and McKissack McKissack, the oldest black owned engineering firm. But, Ms. McKissack, as she will tell you, she is more than a CEO. She is a person who deeply cares for our communities, especially through her philanthropic work. But, it all started with the family business, which is a wonderful tale to say the very least.
Can you tell me about your journey and journey of the McKissack corporation?
In the Mckissack family tree, I am a part of the fifth generation, and as a member of a family based in engineering and architecture, I was more likely to be in the family business than not to be. From an early age, I was influenced to think in a specific manner, specifically to prepare me for my study in the profession and to continue the business. At that age, and in my earlier years, I did not see the value in owning your own business and my family’s firm out of Nashville, Tennessee. My initial thoughts were, “I do not want to be a part of this firm”. Frankly, I was more enamored by New York City. But, as I began working in larger corporations, I began to see the value of your own firm. It allows you to control your own destiny.
In terms of our McKissacks history, it dates all the way back to my great great grandfather, Moses Mckissack the first. He was a slave, who was taught the trade of making bricks. Our family believes that he was given his freedom at some point because he had made so many bricks that he was able to give them to a prominent family in Nashville called the Cheers family. The Cheers family went on to build their mansion with these bricks, and since then, the property has passed down through numerous owners. To this day, the property is still standing, and it bears the McKissack cornerstone. Now Moses McKissack the first wanted his first son Moses McKissack the second to be a craftsman as well. He became a carpenter, and was best known for his spiral staircases and gingerbread finishes, but he also worked on notable projects, such as the Mexborough household cherrel hotel. And, six american presidents have stayed at this hotel.
Now, he had seven girls and then seven boys. The first son was Moses McKissack the third. Moses McKissack the third and his brother Calvin McKissack incorporated McKissack and McKissack in 1905. When they created their company, architectural licensing did not exist, thus they were able to operate. They were master builders, designing buildings and commencing their construction. Yet, in 1922, the state of Tennessee instituted architectural licensing laws. For the McKissacks it would be a challenge to get their licenses. Tennessee was not a racially fair state. Even so, they went to school and obtained architectural degrees and petitioned to get licences. There was resistance to their efforts, so they had to overcome several challenges to obtain them. Eventually, they won favor with one of the board members of licensing, who made sure that they could take the test. And, when they both passed at their first go, the board member made sure that they got their licenses – 117 and 118. They were the first black licensed architects in the United States, so Tennessee gained a lot of notoriety, leading the state to help them get licensed across 22 other, mainly southern, states. What is most interesting to me, is that one can clearly see what can happen when it comes to black people and the ability of white people to help create these achievements.
Eventually the company went down from Moses McKissack the third to my father, who was the youngest of 6 boys. All of his brothers started their own businesses in the engineering and architecture fields. My father was really a designer and an architect. My father had a construction company but he really focused on architecture. Eventually, the company passed down to my mother, who had a masters degree in psychology. You may be asking, “What can a person with a masters degree in psychology do?” Well, she would tell you that it helped her a lot when it came to stopping the phobias of a female CEO in the 1980s. During the 80s, women could not borrow money from banks. Their sons could; their nephews could; their husbands too; but, they could not. That really did not change until the women business act in 1988. My mother was also a great salesperson. She sold our business throughout the south and up the east coast, bringing in myself and my three sisters into the company. But, when I came into the business, I really wanted to be in New York. The only place I ever wanted to live and work professionally was New York City. So, when I graduated from Howard University, I went straight to New York and I was blessed to get a great job at Wiley Group Associates. It was a prominent engineering firm back in the 80s because they had a Department of Defense contract, where they designed silos for missiles and developed other tall structures in Manhattan. From there, I went to Turner Construction and during that time my father had a stroke. My mother took over, as I told earlier. One day she called my boss and told him that I would be quitting, and she then called me and said that I would be working for her in Nashville. I worked for my mother for several and then moved back to New York to create the McKissack group. It has been about 30 years since that date.
The McKissack really utilized the MWBE program that started at the MTA and the Dormitory Authority. The percentages were so low, every project had to have 10% MWBE. I thought the programs were great because they taught us how to work in the agencies, so we could work our way up to get our own prime contracts. We developed a strategy: we worked as a subcontractor at the MWBE, into a major subcontractor, and then a minority joint venture partner, then a majority joint venture partner into a prime contractor. Frankly, NYC has been very good for us. We have had the chance to work on some of the most iconic projects in the city. Currently, we are independent engineers for the MTA. We have had this contract for 10 years and were elected twice to oversee their capital program. The first contract was around $32 billion in projects and our current contract is $54 billion in current projects. We perform operational audits, meaning we do a deep dive into budgets, schedules and constructibility and any issues that the board may see on a project. One of our game changing contracts was the barkley arena, where we moved all the rail. We also worked on Columbia University’s Manhattan build and are in the process of creating a billion dollar hospital in a joint venture with the Turner Group. New York has been great. The McKissack group is 150 people and we have had a really good time
Could you tell me about Legacy Engineers and your role in the organization?
I can’t tell you how excited I am. I have found my place as to what I can contribute and give back. I read articles about creating ecosystems in minority communities, and it starts with equity and entrepreneurship. These articles were especially interesting as they focused on the fact that these methods are the most expeditious way to combat systemic racism. On that note, Legacy is in the ducktales of what the article was saying. When John Rice, the other principal at Legacy Engineers, and I first started I had no idea this was going to have the ability to change so many lives. John and I met six years ago at Jazz and Lincoln center by accident. We started to talk with one another and realized that we are in the same field. Over the years, John told me about his dream of creating a firm for minority engineers. So,the two of us got together and just did it in the form of Legacy Engineers. While working at other majority firms, John and other engineers could see their white counterparts progress past them. As a result, they wanted to create a path of progression that was equitable. We want to create an environment where everyone can reach their maximum potential regardless of their gender and race. And we have done this as a black owned engineering firm, which is a needle in a haystack in this field. This fact has helped us sell so much business. People are intrigued by the whole notion. It seems like we are presenting several times a week. We had just had a call and twenty people were on the phone. It is just new and people are excited about a company that has come together with the qualifications and expertise while being a minority firm. I am excited about these prospects that I have been working with Chandra McQueen on entrepreneurship in other fields, creating minor loans and equity within our communities.
How did attending an HBCU affect your journey?
Howard university gave me a self confidence that no one could ever take away. As a black student at a black school with black teachers you were carefully taken care of. Frankly, the teachers taught you as if you were their own child, which really created powerful relationships. Howard also brought in the elite of the elite. The people that you do not hear about or read about but the people that we need to know about. You got to see these professors in person face to face and 1 on 1 sometimes. These experiences were second to none. But, I also developed an unparalleled brother and sisterhood. I obtained the ability to appreciate the value of other black people. The intelligence, the beauty, the tenacity, the professionalism all the things that we are told as black people that we are not. We see it up close and personal, you can’t deny it. You see black art, black culture, black photography. It was an exposure that changed my opinion on the world
Can you tell me about your life outside of your work, such as philanthropy or personal joys?
Philanthropy comes in tune with work. I am on so many boards that I, frankly, need to figure out which ones I can stay on and which ones I cannot stay on. Each one is philanthropic. From these organizations, I most cherish mental health support. I am on the Northside board which deals with mental health in pre-k to 2-3rd grade for underprivileged kids. That to me is deeply important. If you don’t handle that early on, it has life long implications, but if you catch it early enough people are able to lead normal lives. I am also on Acementor’s national board, which deals with bringing students into engineering and architecture. Usually we go to schools and get kids, mostly minority kids, excited about architecture and engineering. We give them courses, allow them to go on job sites, and have them create projects for a contest that rewards scholarships. This work is necessary as it develops a much needed pipeline of black and brown students who want to enter the architecture and engineering market. I am also on the Women Builder Council, which brings together the women builders of NYC. But, other than that, I am a mom, a wife, and a daughter. Now, during covid, I have been working on playing piano and going back to painting
How did Covid affect your organization?
At the beginning of the shutdown, we were very fearful. We called many of our consultants, telling them that we have to suspend contracts, until we know our contractual situations. Right away we had 5 projects go on hold and 5 others threatened, but, by mid april, everyone was back to work as it was deemed essential. As far as functioning in the office, 80% of our workforce are out in the field, so it was not a major issue. Still we worked with IT to beta test what our system would be online, before the shut down. And, when the city was shut down, our people went home and were able to work smoothly.
Working at home has been a different reality. Most of my workers do not have to commute multiple hours, and they have found themselves to be more efficient. They have been able to spend more time with family and many enjoy their time at home. But, there are still some who want to come back. Regardless, I think it is going to change the workspace for us. I am the type of person that hires professionals, who I expect will be able to manage their time. They do not need to punch a card for me. As long as they are managing their time to finish their job, then I pay no mind to where they are working.
But, we still have a lease for office space that ends in 2022, so, we are quickly trying to figure out what our offices will look like then. However, we cannot completely abandon the offices as we share our space with Legacy engineers, and they work primarily in the office. So John and myself are working on figuring out all of these issues.
Even with these new questions, our time at home has opened new avenues to understanding one another. We all see our decorations, our pets and kids, creating a more related work space. However, I am ready to get back into my office and I hope the city can eventually go back to its old self.
It was a joy to speak with Ms. McKissack. Her story is truly inspirational and it goes to show how far a family can go if they work together. It was interesting to learn about the many aspects of engineering through the frame of an African American lead engineer. Another notable fact was her experience at Howard university, which clearly set her on the path to be a citizen that helps all in our communities.