THT: Hi, I’m Paul Jackson from The Harlem Times. I’m here in Yonkers at Make My Fish (MMF) with co-founders Joe Watson and Pat Ellerbe. Tell me a little bit about your background and how this dynamic partnership began.
Joe Watson: Pat and I go way back. I was born and raised right here in Harlem, and so was Pat—we’re both “1970s babies”. Our families knew each other, and we grew up together. That friendship is now about 45 years strong.
Pat Ellerbe: We were in elementary school and junior high school together, then we parted ways for high school, but we reconnected in college. We were heavily recruited basketball players and both received scholarships, which allowed us to move to the next level. We went to Hudson Valley Community College and then to Albany State University. That experience was a wake-up call for us, because we got to see what was available outside of our immediate neighborhood, and it forged an even stronger bond between us.
THT: That’s a powerful foundation. Pat, what drove you, personally, to pursue entrepreneurship and start this business?
Pat Ellerbe: Seeing my mother, a single parent, sacrifice so much for me and my four brothers and one sister—that drove me to do something different, something better. I wanted to be able to provide a better lifestyle than how I was raised. My professional life started in the service business. I worked as a doorman for 17 years at The Renaissance on 116th Street. That job changed my life because I learned how to bond and network with a lot of different people—lawyers, doctors, judges, police officers. I always remember the phrase: “Your network is your net worth.” Networking with people is how you build that net worth.
THT: You didn’t just stop at developing people skills; you took those skills to the next level.
Pat Ellerbe: That’s right. I got a scholarship to go to the Columbia University Business School for my moving company, Pat’s Moving and Storage. While I was there, big wigs were in attendance, and my colleagues saw my talent. They told me I was too talented to stay as a doorman. That really stuck with me, but I was scared. I had one foot in and one foot out. Ultimately, I had to bet on myself.
THT: That must have required a serious leap of faith—and a significant investment.
Pat Ellerbe: It did. Against the advice of my family, who thought I was crazy, I took a deep breath and decided to take a gamble on myself. I cashed out a portion of my 401k. I had $130,000, and after the penalty, they only gave me $74,000. But I had a plan: I was going to go into business with my best friend, Joe, who is like a brother to me. We trusted each other, put our coins together, and opened up Make My Fish.
THT: Joe, what was your career path before diving into the fish business?
Joe Watson: After college, I was unsure what direction to go in. I worked for an advertising agency, which is where I developed a skill for graphic design. After some turmoil at that company around 2001, I ended up at Hunts Point meat market, working for a company called Rosen and Sons. I learned the trade quickly there. Then, I took the test for the Department of Corrections. I didn’t initially want to do it, but I took the advice of an elder who told me to try it out. I ended up staying on the job for 21 years before retiring just five months ago.
THT: Your flagship Harlem location, on 116th Street, has incredible foot traffic. How did you know that was the spot?
Joe Watson: We did an insane amount of research in 2015. We used to sit in the car with clickers and count how many people walked by in a 15-minute period, doing this every day of the week. I would count people going west to east, and Pat would count east to west. Our numbers came back consistently around 110 to 120 people passing by on each side of the street per minute.
Pat Ellerbe: We knew we had to open up shop there. We later found out it was the number two spot in Harlem for foot traffic, second only to 125th Street, with 26,000 people coming through that block daily. The community was highly receptive from the start; people told us they had been needing something like MMF.
THT: You also brought on a third partner, Al (Alex), the chef. How did that happen, since he had previously been bought out of his family’s fish spot?
Pat Ellerbe: That’s right. Al, who we call our third amigo, is anointed when it comes to cooking. He has a tremendous skill set and a great heart. He was down in Atlantic City at the time, having stepped away from the fish business. We had to persuade him to come back. We showed him the 116th Street location and he was immediately impressed by the foot traffic. He was hesitant at first, but after a two-week interim, he was ready to commit. He took his grandmother’s family recipe and put his own delicious twist on it.
THT: Speaking of commitment, what happened when COVID-19 hit? Did it derail your momentum?
Pat Ellerbe: COVID-19 was a different animal, but surprisingly, 2020 was one of our best years. We were deemed an essential business, and our Uber Eats numbers were astronomical. People were stuck at home and they needed to eat—it was a way for some to ease their pain. The fact that we were making money without even seeing people, just handing orders out the door, showed a different type of income flow.
THT: And that unprecedented growth propelled your expansion to Yonkers.
Pat Ellerbe: Our goal was always to expand, and COVID really accelerated that. We chose Yonkers to fill a void in this community, which didn’t have anything like Make My Fish. Crucially, a lot of our solid customer base was already traveling down to Harlem from White Plains, the tip of the Bronx, and Yonkers just to get our food. I know the area well, too, having lived up here for over 20 years, so we knew exactly what we needed to do.
THT: You’ve maintained a strong, decades-long partnership that has now flourished professionally. What is the secret to that dynamic?
Joe Watson: Without trust, you can’t turn the ignition. That has to come first. We’ve known each other for 45 years, and believe it or not, we’ve never had an argument over business—not even one. We build off each other. If I see something wrong Pat is doing, or vice versa, we talk about it. We delegate different responsibilities, and everybody plays their position. That’s what keeps the machine running.
Pat Ellerbe: We also devised a financial principle: every dollar has an “address to go to”. We look at every bill—rent, Con Ed—and strategize, putting that money into separate envelopes. This design allows us to save money and control the money, instead of letting the money control us. That strategic mindset is crucial, especially because we think a lot alike as two Geminis born two weeks apart.
THT: Looking ahead, what does the future hold for MMF in terms of expansion and franchising?
Pat Ellerbe: Our next location is likely going to be Brooklyn. Once we have three locations, that’s when we can start franchising. To maintain our quality and keep our proprietary recipe secrets safe, we plan to build our own manufacturing warehouse. Everything—especially our seasonings—will be pre-packed and shipped out from us to every franchise location. This way, everything stays in-house, just like McDonald’s, ensuring consistency. We only use fresh fish sourced from Maine, Rhode Island, and Massachusetts, and that commitment to quality will never change.
THT: That’s brilliant—guarding the secrets is key to protecting the brand.
Pat Ellerbe: Absolutely. In the next five to ten years, we are confident we can sell this business for over $100 million. This is a cash-flow business, and the demand is there.
THT: Given your focus on expansion, I’ve heard rumors about Miami. Could we see Make My Fish opening up down south in a place like Miami Beach or Overtown, which is going through such an exciting development phase right now?
Pat Ellerbe: That’s a smart idea. Any place close to the water, like Miami, is somewhere we have to figure out for future sourcing and expansion. The fact that places like Overtown are becoming the next big niche—that’s a huge opportunity. We know the demand for our kind of food is everywhere, and we’re always looking for new avenues to move the business forward.
THT: Finally, what is your ultimate advice for any young person, or anyone in Harlem, who is looking to start their own business?
Joe Watson: If you choose a partner, you must have the same mindset, and you both have to start on the same playing field. You have to be on one accord. Things will happen, and there will be bumps in the road, but you have to focus on problem-solving, not bickering. Develop your skill set and structure the business the way you want it to work. Most importantly, it’s okay to not know everything and to make mistakes; just make sure you learn from those mistakes and move forward.
Pat Ellerbe: I would tell everyone to bet on themselves. Take that deep breath, plant your seed, and know that with hard work, trust, and a clear vision, you can absolutely move to the next level and achieve your dreams. We are living proof of what happens when you believe in yourself and your partners. Harlem is full of geniuses—it’s time to take that leap and show the world what you can build.